Interview with Imedi TV Owner Irakli Rukhadze
The owner of the main pro-Georgian Dream government mouthpiece Imedi TV Irakli Rukhadze said in an interview with Radio Free Europe’s Georgian service that he is not threatened by sanctions, that Imedi TV exists so that the UNM does not return to power, even if in a coalition form, that the EU and US prevent GD government from investigating the alleged “four revolutions in two years” and said there is an ongoing attempt to “destroy Georgian economy” to prompt the change of government.
During the interview with RFE’s Nastasia Arabuli that lasted for a whopping 2 hours and 10 minutes, Rukhadze praised the Georgian Dream government, slammed the Western sanctions against him, discussed the EU, the US, and NATO, spoke about Georgia’s internal politics, relations with Russia, the media environment, Imedi TV and its editorial policy, ongoing protests, and LGBT issues.
On several occasions he claimed to have insider information either from US or Georgian state agencies, however stating at the same time that he was not aware about key developments and events that happened in Georgia recently, such as prominent cases of police brutality against the protesters or high-profile case of arrest of media manager Mzia Amaghlobeli.
Rukhadze said that he had agreed to the interview because he wanted to “show the readers and viewers of the publication why he is a GD supporter. I want to show you my reality,” he said.
Ironically, a man whose media outlet is widely regarded as both the engine and main screen of the propaganda machine in Georgia, which is often accused of dividing society, lamented the growing divisions in society in his introductory statement: “We are, our country is in a very bad place, a very dangerous place. There are incredible divisions in society that have reached the point where there is now a constant dehumanization of the other side. It’s not a small percentage, like 5%, that has broken away, it’s very large groups and at all levels of society: in the family, at work, at school…”.
Rukhadze lamented that one group sees the other as “very bad, immoral, unintelligent” and calls them “sellouts and traitors”.
Imedi TV
Imedi TV was a recurring topic throughout the interview. He claimed he does not watch his own channel, except for the Imedi news section. He said: “I am a very busy man” adding that he has several businesses to run and very little time, and so he reads the news in bits and pieces whenever he can- in a car, during exercise etc.
When asked what his interest in the channel is, since he many times stated that it’s not profitable, Rukhadze said that Imedi is very “precious” to him. “I may visit Imedi once or twice a week,” he said. However, later in the interview, he also noted: “I am not very much involved with Imedi.”
He said the decision to acquire Imedi was Badri Patarkatsishvili’s family decision, who lived in London at that time and was attempting to sell all their property in Georgia. As a result, he became the owner of MagtiCom – a major communications company in Georgia – and the Rustavi metallurgical company, as well as Imedi.
“I did not want it,” he said about Imedi TV, noting that his business partners did not want it either, and added that he did not have a choice as the Patarkatsishvili family told him: “If you want us to part on good terms and quietly, you have to buy it.”
Asked: “Till when are you going with Imedi as shield guard so they [UNM] don’t come to power?” Imedi TV owner said : ”Till they exist.”
Imedi Editorial policy
When asked if he acknowledged his role and responsibility in polarizing society, he said he did, immediately adding a disclaimer saying “But Imedi is like that because the whole media is like that. Why should I show diversity – my goal is for these people to lose”.
Asked if he approves of and shares the responsibility for Imedi’s editorial policy, he said he “cannot watch everything” to approve, but since he is in a position for the channel’s editorial policy, he automatically bears responsibility for it.
Rukhadze brushed away the allegations that the Imedi narrative repeats the Russian narratives, noting they may occasionally coincide, but maintaining that “Imedi is absolutely not a pro-Russian channel.” “We criticize West if we think it does not behave well towards Georgia.”
Commenting on Imedi not criticizing authorities, he said this is not true, citing that the channel did not air several of the pre-election ads for GD [allegedly referring to ads depicting war in Ukraine that were banned by the Communication Commission].
Asked why the Imedi channel broadcast edited and spliced footage of the attack on one of the opposition leaders, Giorgi Gakharia, Rukhadze said: “I think they corrected it, I didn’t like it either. Didn’t we see the whole version? I think we have”. The presenter had to remind him that the channel hadn’t broadcast the full version.
Obsession with United National Movement
Rukhadze admitted: “I am obsessed with UNM” adding: “Had UNM not existed, Imedi would’ve been different, and I would have less problem selling it to someone. But UNM is dangerous for Georgia, so Imedi has to help me not to allow UNM to come to power.” “It is more like a charity,” he added, commenting on the channel not being profitable.
Reminded by the interviewer that the UNM has only gotten 10% of votes according to the official results of the elections, he said that another party that passed the electoral threshold has “sprung from UNM” [Coalition for Change] and further insisted “all parties which stand by UNM” are “also UNM.” He also recalled his personal grievances against Nika Gvaramia (Coalition for Change) (who was a prosecutor in his case back during Saakashvili presidency) and against Giorgi Vashadze (UNM-Unity )”who froze my assets.” He said the only non-GD party that is “not UNM” for him is Girchi [a party that was represented in the previous parliament, not to confuse with Girchi-More Freedom, which is part of the opposition Coalition for Change].
He lamented that Mamuka Khazaradze (Lelo/Strong Georgia Coalition leader) has not occupied the niche “neither GD nor UNM” and also “stood by the UNM” saying: “Even Mamuka Khazaradze wouldn’t have been UNM, but they are because they sidelined with them, and said they wouldn’t create a coalition with GD.”
Rukhadze claimed that in reality, Georgia has a two-party model, claiming that there are only two parties – GD and UNM – and noting that, judging by the experience of the UK and the US, it’s a fairly stable model, said it’s a very dangerous model for Georgia.
He added that the GD’s biggest mistake was not getting rid of the UNM in 2012 when “it had the mandate to do so”.
Asked if it wasn’t normal for people to want the party that had been in power for 12 years to no longer have a parliamentary majority, he rejected such a premise, saying that it was the people’s choice and that the choice between UNM and GD is so simple – “is not even a choice”.
Asked whether his support for the GD stemmed from his dislike of the UNM, or does he actually like the Georgian Dream Rukhadze simply said: “I like GD, I like Bidzina Ivanishvili.”
Media Environment
Rukhadze took a swipe at international actors who, in his view, only seek the opinion of opposition media. As an example, he cited a meeting with media representatives at the Czech Embassy (he did not specify the time or the date), which he said he found out about by chance and attended, and which he said was attended only by “opposition media”.
He said there were eight media outlets, half of which he said he had “never heard of”. He named one such Georgian online media outlet – Chaikhana – mistaking it for a TV channel. He accused the “opposition media” of “telling these foreigners the fairy tales – about how they are afraid, how there is no freedom of speech, how the media is persecuted.”
Rukhadze said: “I tell foreigners: “If you want to do something good for the Georgian media, create a fund that gives money according to ratings, so that TV stations become profitable”.
“If someone wants Georgia to have normal media and not this ugliness like now,” which exists only to polarize, “there are ways to do it,” he said. But he claimed that “normal media” was not in the interests of Georgia’s friends: “Our friends who love us can do that, but I’m not sure it suits them.”
“We are an incredible country,” Rukhadze boasted: “In Georgia you only need two weeks to register the media, and you don’t need a license.”
He was reminded by the interviewer that he had often used this argument alone as proof that the media were free in Georgia, while there are many problems and obstacles that the media faces, such as limited access to Parliament for online media [I am not aware of this, Rukhadze noted], or no access to public information, among others. To the latter, Rukhadze replied: “Well, that’s your problem, and the problem of those who don’t give you information”.
Rukhadze also maintained that Georgia is ahead of all the former USSR countries, except for the Baltic states in terms of media environment.
He dismissed the RSF index for 2024, which shows Georgia to go down by 26 places to 103rd out of 180. He demanded: “Do you know that there are only two TV channels in Moldova? If we are to trust RSF then why is Moldova ahead of us?” He concluded: “I don’t accept this as real [credible] information.”
Mzia Amaghlobeli Case
Asked if he thought the case was illustrative of the media freedom situation in the country, Rukhadze said he did not know the details of the case and asked why Amaghlobeli had been arrested: “Is it because she wrote something and that’s why she’s being arrested?”
He went on to say: “If she said something on TV and was arrested – that’s one thing, but if she hit someone at a protest rally, that’s another story. He then asked a rhetorical question: “Does a journalist have to be untouchable?” and answered it himself: “A journalist, just like, say, a footballer, can be arrested if they commit a crime.”
He compared the current situation with media freedom with what he had experienced in the past, saying that “Georgia is ahead of many countries” and calling the current state of affairs “a great achievement for our country.”
He went on to say that “not only is the media free in Georgia, but the media is not afraid of the state,” citing the refusal of Nika Gvaramia, then general director of Rustavi2, to pay taxes several years ago.
Coverage of Popular Protests
When asked if he thought Imedi TV was an independent media outlet, he insisted, “Yes, of course”.
“My main interaction with Imedi is that if I don’t like something, I call and tell them,” he said. When pressed for clarification, he added that he had, for example, met with the channel’s staff to discuss its coverage of the Rustaveli Avenue protests, adding: “My job is to help them agree with each other.”
Asked by the interviewer whether he had to convene a meeting “to show how our colleagues, journalists, were beaten” and whether he would say that Imedi had done a good job of covering the treatment of journalists while they were carrying out their professional duties, in particular the beating of TV journalist Guram Rogava, who narrowly escaped death, Rukhadze said: “I can’t say, maybe we could have done better.”
Rukhadze commented that Imedi did not cover the beating of Formula journalist Guram Rogava because “earlier he had made ‘accusations’ against Imedi, so we said: why should we cover him if he criticized us? He claimed it was the team’s decision not to cover this incident and ‘that’s how democracy works’.
However, this was contradicted by Guram Rogava’s own comment, made in real time during the live interview, in which he wrote that the Imedi TV story about police brutality against him had been prepared for broadcast by Imedi staff on December 1, but had been blocked from airing. Rukhadze denied any knowledge of this.
Letters from U.S. Senate and Sanctions
The first letter from U.S. Congress
Commenting on the possible US sanctions and the recent letter from U.S. Congress to a then-State Secretary nominee Marco Rubio, containing the list of Georgian businessmen labeled as “enablers” of the Ivanishvili regime and including Rukhadze himself, he said he did not believe he would be sanctioned because of his US citizenship.
He questioned whether the letter had been sent by a Congressman at all or was just sent from Congress: “It did not say that a Congressman sent it, but that it was sent from Congress, you and I could have walked in the Congress and sent it.” He also questioned why there was no English version of the letter found on the Radio Liberty website.
He then slammed the letter, suggesting that it was written with malicious intent. He stressed that the people on the list [Georgian businessmen] control a large part of the Georgian economy, adding: “There is an attempt to destroy the Georgian economy. Why? Because we all know that when the economy is good, people don’t want to change the government.”
Rukhadze praised the Georgian economy, claiming that the World Bank ranked it second in the world for the fastest growing GDP. “We have 25,000 PPP, which means we are not a poor country, only in my companies salaries have increased by 25% in two years. There is also an incredible increase in the price of land in the villages.” He also claimed that Georgia was “ahead of half of Europe in the corruption index, in the democracy index, and that according to this year’s Freedom House report it was named a completely free country”.
Rukahdze concluded: “So we have democracy, freedom of speech, least corruption, budget transparency index and incredible economic growth.”
He accused the opposition of “creating an alternative reality to change this”.
Rukahdze said that he was “not threatened by sanctions”, but that sanctions threatened the people of Georgia, noting that his companies alone employ more than 10,000 people.
He also claimed that “there are direct calls to go to banks and withdraw dollars”, calling this “economic sabotage and a crime” and saying that the GD should punish the perpetrators (while immediately noting: “I am not part of the government”). He said that these calls were being made on social networks, as he had heard from his entourage.
The businessman claimed that he was being sanctioned and punished for exercising freedom of speech and running the most successful media in Georgia, stating: “But they cannot say this, so instead they wrote that I am lobbying Yevtushenkov” [sanctioned Russian tycoon Vladimir Yevtushenkov].
The second letter from U.S. Congress
Rukhadze was asked to comment on the second letter, which, according to Radio Liberty, was sent on 15 January to future US Attorney General Pamela Bondi. The letter specifically asks her to investigate Rukhadze’s business activities, describing them as fraudulent and stressing that as a U.S. citizen, he has a greater responsibility in dealing with those sanctioned by the U.S. The letter also allegedly says that Imedi TV regularly airs the Ivanishvili regime’s propaganda about the US, with offensive content and blaming the US for the world’s problems.
Rukhadze’s rather erratic response started with: “That’s not true, I love US, and Europe, but US is protecting its own interests in Georgia, and not Georgian interests.”
He then claimed that he was in fact “one of the 3% [of the Georgian population] who will benefit most from EU membership, for whom it’s important”, claiming that the figure came from an NDI poll and immediately correcting himself by saying that this figure had risen to 7% according to the latest polls. He dismissed the fact that NDI and other polls put the figure of EU membership supporters in Georgia at over 80%, saying that the figure only showed superficial support.
He spoke of how he would have loved to see Georgia become a NATO member, “but since I know that’s not going to happen” he called the decision” to reflect the EU and NATO commitment in the Constitution it “a madness.”
He then said again that he “loves America, but it’s two big guys playing the football, I don’t want Georgia to be the ball,” he said.
He added: “I think the war in Ukraine is the big boys’ football,” adding that he did not know whether Ukraine could have avoided the war or not, but that “it is in this situation because it did not reject NATO. And it [Ukraine] got Maidan because it did not sign the Association Agreement [with the EU].”
Returning to the subject of the letter to the US Attorney General, he said: “I don’t care about this letter, what worries me is that I can’t defend my interests in court in this case; the verdict is given without me, I don’t have the opportunity to defend myself, that’s why it [sanctions] is a despicable instrument.”
He further claimed that sanctions weaken the US, noting that because of them the US gets less investment, the US dollar is weakened, and because the US “froze Russian money”, China is now thinking about why it should lend money to the US.
As for the allegations of his channel spreading anti-American and anti-Western narratives and sentiments, Rukhadze called them “a lie.” But, he insisted: “If the US has done something bad for my country, Imedi should say it, shouldn’t it?”
He also denied that Imedi spreads Ivanishvili’s and GD propaganda.
“Imedi exists so that the other side does not win, and until there is another side and Ivanishvili, we are automatically on Ivanishvili’s side,” Rukhadze said.
Three main criticisms of the GD
Asked to name the three main things for which the GD deserved criticism, Rukhadze was quick to identify the first, which seemed more like a compliment, saying that the GD does not do enough lobbying and PR for its achievements abroad.
However, he stumbled over the other two criticisms and struggled to name them, finally settling on the GD government’s failure to provide artificial snow at the Gudauri ski resort as the second critical point, and the fact that the government grants tax exemption to the watchdog Transparency International-Georgia as the third. He said: “I don’t like the way TI-Georgia is behaving, the government should withdraw its tax exemption”.
He then repeated GD’s accusation that Western countries were trying to stage “color revolutions” in Georgia by funding civil society organizations: “The problem is that the government allows this kind of behavior to TI and similar organizations because we have gone through four attempts at revolution in the last two years”.)
“Four Revolutions”
Asked if he really believed in the four attempted revolutions, and why investigations in Georgia had never progressed in these cases, Rukhadze said they had never progressed “because we are being stopped by the EU and the US”.
He repeated claims that NGOs were behind them, again singling out TI-Georgia and its director, Eka Gigauri, and insisting that “they should not be involved in politics”.
Economy
Rukhadze again quoted NDI polls, which he said since 2009 have identified five main issues that Georgians are concerned about: poverty, unemployment, pensions and salaries, territorial integrity. Any responsible government should deal only with these, and GD is doing a “fantastic job”, he claimed.
When the interviewer quoted statistics that the number of socially vulnerable people had increased significantly since 2014, he said he did not believe it.
Asked about the decline in FDI under the GD government in recent years and the economy’s growing dependence on Russia, he said that “we’re only dependent on Russia in terms of agriculture”, explaining that it’s “very expensive” to take Georgian wine to the West. On investment, he said: “We are a small economy, so there is little investment,” arguing that FDI in Georgia has always been low.
Asked if the lack of an independent court system was preventing FDI, he said “that’s a lie” and again quoted an NDI survey which he claimed showed that the courts were not even in the top 20 concerns of small businesses.
David Gareji Case
Asked about his TV channel’s active coverage of the David Gareji case ahead of the 2020 elections, in which two public servants were accused of intending to cede land to Azerbaijan in the process of border demarcation and were continuously featured by Imedi as traitors without a court verdict, Rukhadze replied: “And do you think I had a court verdict before I was sanctioned? When I was called a traitor, had the court given the verdict? Even children call each other traitors”.
Asked whether, after several months of active “Gareji campaigning” by his channel, it owed it to its viewers two years later to explain why the case had been effectively suspended and what the situation was with the border demarcation process, Rukhadze pleaded ignorance of the case and asked: “Are they [those arrested in connection with the case] still in prison?” And then promised to find out, noting “but since they are not arrested, the situation is apparently not so acute”.
LGBT Rights
Asked why his channel was inciting hatred against LGBT people when his own daughter is openly gay and in an openly gay marriage in the US, Rukhadze said he wouldn’t comment on his daughter and also denied that Imedi was inciting LGBT hatred.
He also said that the LGBT issue doesn’t bother him, but it “bothers a lot of Georgians” and that’s why Imedi covers it.
“This issue, he said, is brought from outside,” he said. He said “it’s an issue that’s been blown out of proportion by the NGOs”. He added: “I don’t see much homophobia in Georgia,” he said, while adding that LGBT propaganda is a “big problem” for the whole world.
When reminded that the perpetrators of the 2014 attack on the GLBT Pride gathering had not been held accountable, he said he had no information on this.
He insisted that “sexual orientation is something a person can choose”: “It’s a decision.”
Russia
Asked what model of Georgian-Russian relations he would like to see, as he has often said there should be direct dialogue beyond the Abashidze-Karasin format, Rukhadze said that Russia “is our economic partner, it’s involved in wars around us… we should be in a regime of constant dialogue with it”.
He also said Georgia should have restored diplomatic relations with Russia back in 2012.
“I’m most afraid that Russia and the US will come to an agreement on Ukraine, maybe not immediately, but in 2025… and the US will suspend for some time or forever the enlargement of NATO to Russia’s borders; if that happens, America will say that Georgia won’t become part of NATO, [meaning] no exercises, no weapons, etc.,” he said.
He developed his narrative: “If this happens, for the first time the U.S. will change its attitude towards Georgia, not because of us or the Georgian Dream, but because if it loses the possibility to have its weapons here, it will have a different interest towards Georgia”. He said it was inconceivable that Russia shouldn’t interfere in Georgia’s internal affairs and stressed that this was another reason why it was important to talk to Russia, he concluded, and “to know what it wants”.
He added: “Nobody knows what Russia, Iran and Turkey will do”.
He completely rejected the view (including that of the US State Department) that the GD was promoting the Kremlin’s interests and had led Georgia away from the EU integration path, arguing instead that: “We misbehaved, according to the State Department, and the State Department doesn’t like us,” claiming that this was why “the US embassy wanted the change of government” and why it “advertised the [2024] elections on billboards”.
Asked whether he personally believed the threat of war was real and whether he accepted that it is a Russian propaganda narrative, he said he absolutely believes it is real and that he is “very afraid” when Russia threatens to attack Georgia if NATO expands.
Rukhadze then took the opportunity to once again praise GD for “walking a tightrope” and avoiding war. He said “Georgia has obviously stepped on someone’s toes” and asked: “How else can you explain that out of 193 countries, we are the only chosen one that has been disturbed by the whole West?”
“What have we done to deserve it?!” he inquired emotionally.
In this context, he also said that Georgia has been part of the Western world for the last 30 years, which controls “this territory”. He explained the Western world’s disapproval of Georgia by the fact that “for the first time in these 30 years, this government said “no” to something big”. He did not explain what it was.
He also claimed that Bidzina Ivanishvili had been sanctioned by the US for averting war in Georgia.
The businessman contended that Georgia should worry about what will happen to it “if Putin and Trump agree.” “We will wake up in a different world”, he said adding that Georgians should worry about that and not about whether Georgia will join the EU in 2030. When the host reminded him that thousands of people protest every day demanding Georgia’s integration into the EU, he dismissed this as insignificant, repeating that there are supposedly only 7% for whom EU membership is important.
Ongoing Popular Protests
While noting that some police misconduct during the protests should be investigated, he justified the actions of the police. He said it was “madness” to suggest that the police should use proportionate force, explaining: “So if someone comes with a knife, the police should respond with a knife, and if someone throws pyrotechnics, the police should throw pyrotechnics?”
According to Rukhadze, in “any normal country” a sniper should immediately take out a protester pointing a “machine gun” or at the police [he was corrected that there were no machine guns at protest rallies, only some pyrotechnics, but still maintained that the police should not wait to see what comes out and shoot anyway].
When the host pointed out that of the more than 500 people arrested at the recent rallies, more than 100 had to be hospitalized with broken facial bones as a result of police brutality, Rukhadze replied: “Why aren’t you concerned about the police who have been injured?” The presenter noted that for weeks her publication had been unable to obtain information from the MIA about a single injured policeman. “It is very bad that [MIA’s] PR is not working,” was Rukhadze’s response.
Asked about concrete high-profile cases of police brutality, such as the kidnapping of Revaz Kiknadze by police, he said he had no information about it, while commenting that “it’s horrible”. He also said he believes the police violence will be investigated by the authorities.
“There is absolutely no authoritarian system in Georgia,” he maintained.
Also Read:
- 25/12/2024 – Imedi TV Owner Skewers GD, Kobakhidze
- 10/10/2024 Pro-government Imedi TV Refuses to Air Opposition Campaign Ads
- 15/07/2024 – Pro-government TV Owner Says Euro-Atlantic Aspirations Should Not be Included in Constitution
- 18/06/2024 – Imedi TV Journalist Resigns, Citing Unwillingness to Incite Violence
- 15/12/2023 – TV Imedi Journalist Quits, Alleges Anti-US Propaganda
- 29/03/2023 – Patarkatsishvili Family Wins Compensation Battle on UK Appeal
- 19/10/2021 – Imedi TV Vows to Fight Against UNM’s ‘Revanche’