Interview with Senator Jeanne Shaheen | Kowtowing to the Dictatorship and Russia is not the Way to Move Georgia into the Future

On September 14, with less than two months to go before Georgia’s crucial parliamentary elections, influential U.S. Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) and one of the initiators in the U.S. Senate of the Georgian People’s Act spoke with Voice of America’s (VoA) Georgian Service reporter Mariam Ugrekhelidze about expectations for the October elections, her meeting with Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze and the challenges facing the country. We offer you the interview – courtesy of VoA, with our very minor edits for clarity.

VOA: What are your main concerns about ongoing situation in Georgia? How concerned are you about the election itself, and how much do you think this law is going to affect all the processes?

Well, when I was in Georgia in the beginning of August, I met with a number of civil society groups. And what I heard from them was real concern about the Foreign Agents law- not concern about the transparency, which I understand the government has said is the reason they want this law. CSOs weren’t worried about that. They were worried about how difficult it was going to be to comply with the law and what that was going to mean for their ability to operate in Georgia. And that’s particularly unfortunate because so many of those organizations do such good work for the people of Georgia. And if they’re not able to comply and they wind up having to leave the country, then that creates a real vacuum for services and needs that the people have.

You and your colleagues have many times called this law Russian playbook, Russian-influenced. How concerned are about the Russian influence in Georgia and about the possible Russian influence on the elections?

I think that is a real concern. And again, we heard from a number of groups who expect to observe the elections, that they’re very worried about whether it’s going to be a free and fair election. That was an issue that we raised with every government official that we met with, with the prime minister, with the defense minister, with the foreign minister, with the president. And what we heard from the Prime Minister was that they were committed to a free and fair election. I hope they will stick to that.

I know Georgia is in a very difficult geography in the world, and I appreciate that. I appreciate the challenges that they have with 20% of the land that’s been occupied by Russia, but the willingness to follow in the footsteps of the dictatorship of Vladimir Putin and Russia, I don’t understand.

And it’s not where the people of Georgia are. What we’ve heard from the people of Georgia is that they want to be part of the EU, part of the West, that they see that as their future, not Russia. And so kowtowing to the dictatorship and Russia doesn’t seem to me to be the way to move Georgia into the future.

Elections are coming close not only in Georgia, but also here in the United States. Whether it will be Trump or Harris administration, do you expect any policy changes towards Georgia? And if not, then what could be a breaking point for them?

You know, we got asked this question. I was on the delegation in August with Michael Turner, who’s Republican from the House. He’s a member of Congress. He heads the Intelligence Committee in the House. So, we had a bicameral, bipartisan delegation, and we were asked about policy changes should the administration change. And we both agreed that there is bipartisan support to try and support Georgia’s EU aspirations, the people of Georgia’s democratic aspirations. And that’s not going to change no matter who gets elected President. And that’s where the bipartisan members of Congress are.

Senator, you met with the Prime Minister of Georgia. He keeps saying that relationship should be renewed between Georgia and United States, and not only him, but a number of government officials. After meeting him and after meeting other officials, do you have a feeling that they are ready to cooperate, that they are ready to improve relations with us considering everything that is going on in the country now.

You know, I was really disappointed in our meeting with the Prime Minister. The United States has for over 30 years now supported Georgia’s democratic aspirations, supported the country with assistance, the United States Agency for International Development is there. One of the things we did while we were there was to go up to Gori and see some of the initiatives there to support young people in Georgia who were very impressive, to support entrepreneurs in the region who had been affected because of Russia’s invasion and the challenges with the administrative boundary line on South Ossetia.

And to hear the Prime Minister talk about wanting to reset the relationship and then to not be willing to do anything to try and make that happen… you know, the one [thing] we said to him, what do you think needs to happen to improve the relationship to make sure that we continue in this partnership that we’ve had for 30 years now. And his only ask of us was that… He talked about his frustration with any civil society, NGOs that are critical of the government and how he thought that needed to end and how he wanted the United States to stop supporting any of those NGOs. And Congressman Turner was very frank. He said to him: you know, we live in a democracy. Georgia is a democracy, we hope. And we’re used to criticism when we get criticism all the time. But that doesn’t mean, we stop talking and it doesn’t mean that we stop, trying to move forward in a way that’s beneficial to both parties.

But he had no positive initiatives to ask us or let us know that they really are interested in trying to continue the partnership that we’ve had.

My next question is exactly about that. He made a statement about what you just said. He said that he never asked you to stop financing those parts of that civil society that are criticizing the government. He said it’s a pity that U.S. Senator is telling lies. He also said that you never mentioned Foreign Agents law at a meeting with him. What do you have to say about that? And what do you have to say about the agenda that the Georgian government has towards its Western allies?

Well, I wasn’t the only one in that meeting. There are lots of other people who can confirm what he said, including Congressman Turner. So again, it’s disappointing. I think he operates under the assumption that if he’s the leader of the government and he continues to tell a lie, he can keep telling and people will believe it. So, I think that’s just not credible.

Speaking of the government and the leaders of Georgian government Bidzina Ivanishvili denied your request to meet you when you were in Tbilisi. He did the same with Assistant Secretary James O’Brien. And if I’m not mistaken, all the Western politicians who visited Georgia to discuss the Foreign Agents law. What did they tell you personally? What was the reason why he denied your meeting? What do you think about it? And generally, what kind of message does it send when the leader of the party, of the government is not meeting with such high-level politicians?

Well, it was unfortunate; we were not given a reason for why he wasn’t going to meet with us, just that he couldn’t meet. But clearly he’s not interested in meeting with anyone who might challenge any of his assumptions or what he’s saying about the relationship between the United States and the government of Georgia and Georgian Dream. So, that’s unfortunate, because we can’t continue to move forward. We can’t look at ways to continue to support Georgia if the leadership and the government are not willing to enter into any discussions.

And you asked me about the Foreign Agents law: the Prime Minister and I at this trip did not talk about the Foreign Agents law. I’ve made my position very clear on that when I was in Georgia when it was first being proposed. We opposed it. I’ve had a chance to talk to the Prime Minister before he became Prime Minister in opposition to the law, and was on the record. So, we talked about other things.

Senator, Pentagon stopped the military exercises with Georgia; 95 million, assistance to the government was frozen. The State Department also took some steps to punish some of the government members. Where do you think U.S. Georgian relations are going and do you think we should wait for other sanctions or restrictive steps? [The interview was recorded before the U.S. imposed additional sanctions on Georgian individuals]

Well, again, that’s why the conversation with the Prime Minister was so disappointing, because what we really hoped we would hear was particular ways in which we could work together going forward, things that he would like to see addressed.

And there was none of that in that meeting. And we’ve had a very positive military-to-military relationship. The Georgian military has fought alongside the United States and Afghanistan in ways that have been so important to our country that we so appreciate and the support that we’ve tried to provide to Georgia has been important in thinking about how to continue to improve human rights in the country, how to continue to improve democracy in the country, to make things work better, to address corruption and other issues. And so it’s very disappointing to see that there doesn’t seem to be any interest going forward.

My last question to you is about Georgian People’s Act – your initiative that was brought to the floor with some of your colleagues. What stage is it at? What are the prospects of it becoming a law? And what is the Georgian government facing when this will be enacted?

Well, we’re still negotiating the bill because we are trying to include it, as we pass our defense bill at the end of the year, which I think will happen after the elections. And so there may be some provisions that are in it, that will come out, and we’re still trying to address that. But but the hope is that it sends a message to the Georgian people that we support their EU aspirations, we support their democratic aspirations to continue to live in a country that values democracy, that values human rights, that values the values rule of law, and that we are concerned about the upcoming elections, about making sure that they are free and fair and supporting the people in those elections.

I hope the turnout will be robust, just as I hope the turnout in the United States in our elections will be robust.